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Chris

El Paso/ Dayton/ Chicago Shootings

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Chris    951

Initial report are between 15-20 casualties, no word on how many fatalities. 21 year old suspect in custody.

It's already playing out like usual. Young man goes off the rails and does this. People flocking to social media railing against guns and "thoughts and prayers" ( as if their posting were any more effective ). Everyone calling for something to be done, and once again ignoring the underlying issue or the search for the issue. 

Here's a hint: It ain't guns, people. We live in a society where far too many people don't value their own life, nevermind the lives of others.

Furthermore, I'll bet an order of wings at Bernie Murray's this kid is from a middle class or more affluent family and on at least one psych med. 

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Chris    951

Update: MSNBC reporting 19 dead, 40 wounded. 

However at the police update, they are not giving numbers yet. 

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Johnny Go    167

Like every other time, need to wait 24-48 hours for the facts to come out correctly.  Wild speculations will fly and never be rescinded in the meantime.

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Chris    951

Absolutely. I was flipping back and forth during the press conference and then noticed that MSNBC took down the numbers they had on the screen. I took a pic though, because I want to see how it compares to the truth. 

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Chris    951

I had a new post on here this morning, but in hindsight it was kinda angry and not helpful in the overall atmosphere so I took it down. The following I posted on my personal site Twitter account ( to absolute crickets for response ) sums it up better:

Quote

When #FundMentalHealthcare is as catchy and popular with politicians as #EndGunViolence or #GunControlNow maybe something will change.

 

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Chris    951

9 dead ( shooter also dead but doesn't deserve to be counted in my opinion ) and 26 injured in Dayton, Ohio this morning. 

Christ...

 

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KReed    442
On 8/4/2019 at 10:01 AM, Chris said:

When #FundMentalHealthcare is as catchy and popular with politicians as #EndGunViolence or #GunControlNow maybe something will change.

Unfortunaely, every news outlet, celebrity and politician would twist that to mean hand big pharma even more money and put even more people on drugs with dangerous side effects...instead of any serious research on the correlation of these shootings (and other violence) to prescribed psychiatric meds.

 

I have yet to find a phrase short and catchy enough to capture the following in a hastag: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3002271/

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Chris    951

I skimmed it because I'm pressed for time, but it's a great lead in to what I was thinking this afternoon. 

I've long said that for as much attention as opioids get, psychotropic drugs are also being handed out too freely. I saw it in nearly 10 years in primary care:

"Mom died this week, I need something so I don't feel so sad, so I can function."

"I'm having some trouble at work, need something to bring me down when I've had a bad day."

What I'm getting at is, instead of trying to cope with their emotions and reactions to stress in the most natural of ways, people often prefer to go right to the meds that make it go away. Kinda like the person who wants Percocet for pain without trying a Tylenol which would likely suffice. 

I've had the news on this afternoon and among the ridiculous things I've heard, I've heard repeatedly "It's not about mental health."

F--king what?!?

Anyone who decides to go out and try to kill dozens of people, no matter what their base reasoning, obviously isn't playing with a full deck. 

And it's coming out now that the loser in Ohio had a history of some seriously disturbing behavior. 

But it aint about mental health... nope.

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Adam    19

notice now, none of the 2020 Dems are barking and sniping at each other? They've got weeks of campaign fodder now as well as all the previous pissing and moaning that occurred when Trump Did NOT respond to National occurrences, and when he does, its not good, genuine enough or hes a racist and this is his fault why bother saying anything etc.....

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Chris    951
Quote

In a nation afflicted by fads, crazes, manias, and rages, mass murder is the jackpot for nihilists — begging the question: why does this country produce so many of them? Answer: this is exactly what you get in a culture where anything goes and nothing matters. Extract all the meaning and purpose from being here on earth, and erase as many boundaries as you can from custom and behavior, and watch what happens...

Read the rest HERE

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KReed    442
On 8/5/2019 at 9:43 PM, Adam said:

notice now, none of the 2020 Dems are barking and sniping at each other? They've got weeks of campaign fodder now as well as all the previous pissing and moaning that occurred when Trump Did NOT respond to National occurrences, and when he does, its not good, genuine enough or hes a racist and this is his fault why bother saying anything etc.....

image.png.5b443e96e6d452c35ffa22d3b6199228.png

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Chris    951

I changed the topic title to reflect all three incidents from the weekend, including the one largely ignored. 

By the way, here's some names we should be hearing more:

Screen Shot 2019-08-07 at 8.12.24 AM.png

Those are the cops that ran towards the Ohio shooter and dropped him before he could go in that packed nightclub where people were hiding. 

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KReed    442
Posted (edited)

While I agree with the sentiment of keeping guns from 'dangerous people', Red Flag laws are as scary as mass shootings.

Edited by KReed

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Johnny Go    167

Done correctly red flag type laws or systems are the only chance there is to stop an evil person from doing these acts.  However, the way current red flag laws are written they are another tool for evil people to harm good people.

There needs to be due process.  There needs to be due diligence to follow up on reports. There also needs to be significant punishment for anyone who knowingly makes false reports.

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KReed    442
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Johnny Go said:

Done correctly red flag type laws or systems are the only chance there is to stop an evil person from doing these acts.  However, the way current red flag laws are written they are another tool for evil people to harm good people.

There needs to be due process.  There needs to be due diligence to follow up on reports. There also needs to be significant punishment for anyone who knowingly makes false reports.

If we are removing guns based on actions and demonstrated behavior, then I'm OK with it. But it's no longer a "red flag" (thought crime or prior restraint) at the point where actions/behavior accompany those thoughts. 

Thd Dayton guy didn't just have his kill/rape lists, he published them...and harrassed and threatened (actions). Charging him for the actions and prosecuting to the fullest extent and removing his firearms (or institutionalizing him) based on ajudication of those earlier actions would have been our justice system in motion - not a 'red flag' 

In addition to John Hinckley Jr being under psychiatric care and expressing desires to harm a President before shooting Reagan...he was actually arrested for weapons charges a few times (in cities where Carter and Reagan were visiting). I wouldn't have supported removing his 2A rights in 1980 just for his thoughts....but combined with his actions that were ajudicated - yes!

Edited by KReed

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Johnny Go    167

Exactly, that's why I said "laws or systems".  

The fact is, officials in many of these cases failed to act on ample warnings.  The parkland shooter is another example of a failure.  Of course, the Coward of Broward was not only criminally inept in letting the shooter have free reign of the killing field, he also failed to act on the warning signs pass that this was a evil bomb waiting to go off.

In all fairness, we don't know how many shooters by have been stopped competent and responsible officials before they went off.

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KReed    442

My problem is with the proposals to Red Flag  'ideologies' or suspend a Right based on someones opinions/beliefs that could be a precursor to violence 
(whether it is 'toxic masculinity', governmant mistrust, white nationalism, black power, homophobia or radical Islam)....that it is essentially making "thoughts" a crime. 

Many of the "could have been stopped sooner" creatures did express such views and we are hearing that as a basis for Red Flag laws. However, most of those also displayed actions that crossed various legal lines as well. More vigorus enforcment of existing laws would have prevented a lot of carnage in those cases without the need for new laws.

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Chris    951
Quote

Attorney’s for the suspect’s family indicate the mother was not calling to report her son as a danger. Rather, they describe her call as an “informational” one in which she was trying to ascertain what was legal.

Anybody else not really buying that?

If one of our boys came home with a new rifle and I didn't think they were mature enough, I don't need the police telling me it's okay or not. 

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